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 Post subject: Gravid solifugid! please help
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 6:58 am 
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Ok, I collected a solifugid recently(Near Nevada City, CA), and after the trip brought her home. However, she is swollen and obvious eggs are visible through her abdominal wall.

What should I do with her? I haven't heard of anyone succeeding before.


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 Post subject: Re: Gravid solifugid! please help
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 7:36 pm 
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I've brought home a solifugid...and in the last few days of the trip eggs became visible inside of it.

Any help as to how to set her up? She's been doing okay in a small container, but I recently moved her to a bigger one.

Also, her abdomen changes in size alot. It seems today that the eggs are not so visible(her abdomen is more white)and despite feeding quite a bit has not changed significantly. I haven't watched her since putting her in this enclosure but in the small jar she seemed to keep weight much better. This sweaterbox container has soil for her to dig in and some physical barriers to try to stop pacing. A rock retreat was also provided. Right now she's in a little depression against the side chowing on a mealworm.


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 Post subject: Re: Gravid solifugid! please help
PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 4:02 am 
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If you give here some substrate she'll eventually dig a burrow and lay a big pile of eggs. Problem is the eggs generally don't hatch.


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 Post subject: Re: Gravid solifugid! please help
PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 4:38 am 
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I've heard one person(Punzo) has succeeded in rearing NA solifugids.

Are problems with eggs related to them being infertile? Should the eggs be perhaps incubated seperately?


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 Post subject: Re: Gravid solifugid! please help
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:37 am 
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ok, eggs have now been laid on one side of the tank. Now what? I've removed the female. Leave em on the dirt...take them out and incubate them?


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 Post subject: Re: Gravid solifugid! please help
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:53 am 
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Punzo managed to incubate Eremobates marathoni throughout its entire life cycle.

Normally, solifuges exhibit some degree of nest gaurding behaviour, staying with the eggs up until the first instar stage. However, they also exhibit some degree of egg cannabalism...

Punzo suggests that it is best to remove the eggs and culture them on some moist paper towel substrate.

Aim for humidity of around 80% and temps in the 70/80s F.

If they are not fertle, they will darken and shrivel within 48hrs.

If any eggs hatch, the post embryo stage will not be able to eat (dont provide food). At this stage they are gregarious and will clump together. Watch this stage carefully: after the first instar moult they will suddenly change behaviour and start to eat each other.

Seperate before this stage and start to feed on tiny insects.

In E.marathoni, optimal conditions for juveniles were reached at 21-26C and 70% RH.

Good luck - and if you do hatch any successfully, be sure to record the number of nymphal instars (and duration between) because there's a good chance this info will not be known to science....


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 Post subject: Re: Gravid solifugid! please help
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:24 pm 
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Thanks alot! The eggs do not appear to have made any noticeable changes.

How much airflow should they have? I'm almost considering either leaving them there or taking only 1/2 the eggs in worry of losing them due to mold or similar.


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 Post subject: Re: Gravid solifugid! please help
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:22 pm 
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critterguy wrote:
Thanks alot! The eggs do not appear to have made any noticeable changes.

How much airflow should they have? I'm almost considering either leaving them there or taking only 1/2 the eggs in worry of losing them due to mold or similar.


Well, you need to just correct the balance as you see fit - you need the humidity to be high, but not too high as to grow moulds.

If the eggs continue like this, you should eventually begin to distinguish the features of the young solifuge in the egg. Incubation is variable, some species took about 14 days or so.

Remember and record all the details - clutch size, incubation time, instars etc etc. :)

This is really interesting, I recently aquired a solifuge and was hoping it was gravid - it appears not sadly. It much be so much easier for you guys to just go into your backyard and collect them however - in the UK, they tend to cost £15-20 each (Like $40!)....


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 Post subject: Re: Gravid solifugid! please help
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:13 pm 
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The big African species cost us about that much as well. I think it helps alot getting specimens "fresh" that haven't already been through the whole wholesale/retail process. Stress is a big factor in succeeding or failing with these things, and I think many in the trade are already on their last legs before the hobbyist actually gets them.

Mike "troll" Dame has had some luck hatching these out. I suspect he may still be en route back from the conference.

Wade


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 Post subject: Re: Gravid solifugid! please help
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:58 pm 
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Any chance on a second batch of eggs, or is the mom doomed to die soon? She is feeding like crazy still.

No noticeable change to egg mass.

If you guys look up the thread by Anubis about the Arizona solifugid...very similar story to this one here and the egg mass look/placement is pretty much indentical. Not too enthused that all the babies died though!


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 Post subject: Re: Gravid solifugid! please help
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:14 am 
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critterguy wrote:
Any chance on a second batch of eggs, or is the mom doomed to die soon? She is feeding like crazy still.

No noticeable change to egg mass.

If you guys look up the thread by Anubis about the Arizona solifugid...very similar story to this one here and the egg mass look/placement is pretty much indentical. Not too enthused that all the babies died though!


Your guess is as good as mine - seriously, there is VERY little info in the literature about species specific details on clutch size, no of egg masses etc etc. I'd be happy with the one just now :) Good luck hatching them out.

Wade: Interesting to hear they cost so much by you - I guess its easier to stick with the (comparatively) better known US species. I've had some success with my female - most seem to die within a few weeks, but i've had mine nearly 2 months.

There's been a recent health wobble, but shes still hanging in there. I'm actually confused as to whats going on - it looks like shes at deaths door, then all of a sudden starts to get all active again. Its very odd, and very different to how she behaved in the first month.


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 Post subject: Re: Gravid solifugid! please help
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 6:43 pm 
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If they really are going to hatch out in about 14 or so days they might do so while I'm out of town

I wonder if any SCABIES or SFBATS members are close enough to consider taking this egg mass over? You'll likely need a source of subterranean termites for best results.


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 Post subject: Re: Gravid solifugid! please help
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:12 pm 
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critterguy wrote:
If they really are going to hatch out in about 14 or so days they might do so while I'm out of town

I wonder if any SCABIES or SFBATS members are close enough to consider taking this egg mass over? You'll likely need a source of subterranean termites for best results.



I'd keep an eye on them for now; you certainly wont need to feed them after the hatch for a day or so until they moult into 1st instars.

thats assuming any hatch - ive not heard of a lot of success in hatching WC clutches.

Good luck! Take as many photos as you can! :D


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 Post subject: Re: Gravid solifugid! please help
PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 11:49 pm 
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I just came back from a 5 day camping trip.

We have bad news and good news

Bad news is a few eggs fungused...probably due to me not opening the container daily.

Good news is that I have seperated out 32 or so eggs that look good into a margarine tub with holes and some dirt. They don't appear to have changed much. Has anyone seen them develop?

And the other good news is that I brought back 2 more solpugids...a very fat adult female who I again assume has eggs, and a smaller female who is also rather plump. The particular place I went is about the same elevation and environ(dry pine forest, elevation around 5000-6000 ft) as where the other solpugid was caught but much closer to home(2 hr drive). Amusing note is that the plant mountain misery was present at both places. Around the bathrooms I got to see many many solpugids of all different sizes and sexes. I observed adult females, both gravid and not, what appeared to be young females, adult males, and babies about the size of termites, all hanging around the camp bathrooms. I easily saw 15 different ones during the trip and I feel this represents only a small amt of the population. I suppose they were attracted to the light and fed on the bugs gathered also. A line of carpenter ants quickly dispatched any that were stepped on by unaware fellow campers(oddly enough, no one seemed to notice them!). But try as a might(not too hard haha!) I could not find any during the day. And I turned over a lot of rocks and brought back a lot of logs for firewood. I wonder if perhaps once or twice per molt they go out on an eating spree and these are the ones that end up by the bathrooms?


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 Post subject: Re: Gravid solifugid! please help
PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 12:00 am 
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heres a pic of the incubator i used with success for solifugid eggs, the lid had a bunch of small holes in it for ventilation but they wernt small enough and the babies escaped through them. the white stuff on the bottom is wet paper towel
Image



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 Post subject: Re: Gravid solifugid! please help
PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 12:11 am 
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Wow Mike...thats great!

So am I correct in saying...

You have a cup with a lid. Paper towel at the bottom for moisture...and a cheesecloth or similar material for a hammock. Then a lid.

How big are the babies? The eggs are pretty big and I hear the babies or not motile for a day or two anyway. What would you have done to raise em had they not escaped?

Also, do different species of solfugids lay different size/shaped eggs? Closer looks at gravid female no 2(from Fresno County, rather than near Nevada City)reveals lots of what appear to be tiny grains of rice under her skin. The female from Nevada city had white spots visible under the skin. I suppose different sized eggs?


Also, I have one week before I move out to college(CSULB). I have no idea what is going to happen with them but I hope to take them with me.


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 Post subject: Re: Gravid solifugid! please help
PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 12:45 pm 
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critterguy wrote:
Wow Mike...thats great!

So am I correct in saying...

You have a cup with a lid. Paper towel at the bottom for moisture...and a cheesecloth or similar material for a hammock. Then a lid.

How big are the babies? The eggs are pretty big and I hear the babies or not motile for a day or two anyway. What would you have done to raise em had they not escaped?

Also, do different species of solfugids lay different size/shaped eggs? Closer looks at gravid female no 2(from Fresno County, rather than near Nevada City)reveals lots of what appear to be tiny grains of rice under her skin. The female from Nevada city had white spots visible under the skin. I suppose different sized eggs?


Also, I have one week before I move out to college(CSULB). I have no idea what is going to happen with them but I hope to take them with me.


I think you need to post some photos of the adults - a lot of this depends on the species of solifuge. We might be able to hazard a guess at least of the family. Punzo reared Eremobates solifuges and I could look up his conditions if you want further advice. However, each species might be different, who knows...

How many eggs were in the clutch that got mouldy?

As far as I know, if they havent shriveled and turned black/brown, they are developing.


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 Post subject: Re: Gravid solifugid! please help
PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 6:58 pm 
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well looks like you guys are on the right track, might I just add that I would strongly suggest sending some caught specimens to the AMNH for the World Solpugid Revision. Most will die in due time anyways, why not contribute to science?

http://www.solpugid.com/index.htm



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 Post subject: Re: Gravid solifugid! please help
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 6:45 pm 
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ok, Fresno County gravid female now has visible eggs of the same size as the Nevada city female(who is MIA due to hyperactive climbing :rolleyes:). I cannot get my Fresno Co. solpugids to feed however.


The eggs look ok, some are getting milky on one side and clearer on the other...maybe a sign of development. The moldy eggs look ok but popped like pimples when I attempted to transfer them.

Both Nevada City and Fresno Co. solpugids are most likely Eremobates sp. based on photos.


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 Post subject: Re: Gravid solifugid! please help
PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 12:37 am 
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Fresno Co. female has laid eggs...actually caught her in the act. Very cool. My computer caught a virus but maybe sometime soon i'll be able to get all the photos up.

No change in Nevada Co. eggs


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