It is currently Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:30 pm

All times are UTC [ DST ]




 Page 1 of 1 [ 18 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: offspring dorsal orientation thread
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:00 am 
User
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 10:54 pm
Posts: 1287
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
For quite some time now I have wanted to see a sticky that people post reports and photos of offspring orientation in scorpions. Is this a possibility?



_________________
Zachary J. Valois
Salt Lake City, Utah
Z_Valois@yahoo.com
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: possible sticky?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 6:47 am 
User

Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 8:55 am
Posts: 656
Location: Detroit, southeastern Michigan, U,S.A.
Hi Zach,

One of my favorite subjects (actually, all things related to the dorsal transportation stage in scorpions). While my list is far from complete, I have DOP's listed for 331 different species. Random dorsal orientation occurs in 14 of the 18 extant scorpion families (systematics based on Prendini & Wheeler 2005; Levy 2005; Volschenk et al. 2008), and is the basal pattern of orientation in scorpions. Initially, transverse orientation was only listed for Diplocentrus whitei (Diplocentridae). However, it also occurs in at least three species within a scorpionid genus, and I suspect that it may occur in some species within another genus. Longitudinal orientation is limited to several vaejovid taxa. The pseudolongitudinal pattern occurs in buthid scorpions collectively known as bark scorpions (babycurus, microtityus, Tityus...).
Theories on the adaptive value of DOP's in general and in each particular DOP are several, with each appearing to have varying degrees of merit. For example: while postembryos of V. spinigerus, V. coahuilae, and V. puritanus appear to require some form of trophic exchange with maternal females for survival, postembryos of V. confusus are vagile and will leave the dorsa of maternal females for periods up to 22-minutes.

The pseudolongitudinal pattern (my own temporary terminology) is (I believe) an adaptation by the postembryos of bark scorpions to life on vertical and subvertical surfaces. However, I won't go into detail because as Christian aptly stated, the topic is obscure and of little interest to most.

If you need DOP's for specific species I can probably supply them (shoot me an "e").

Cheers,
Luc


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: possible sticky?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:41 pm 
User

Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 8:55 am
Posts: 656
Location: Detroit, southeastern Michigan, U,S.A.
Selected listing of Vaejovidae.

Longitudinal pattern of dorsal orientation:

Pseudouroctonus apacheanus (Gertsch & Soleglad, 1972)
Ps. iviei (Gertsch & Soleglad, 1972)
Ps. minimus thompsoni (Gertsch & Soleglad, 1972)
Ps. reddelli (Gertsch & Soleglad, 1972)

Serradigitus allredi Sissom & Stockwell, 1991
S. gertschi (Williams, 1968)
S. wupatkiensis (Stahnke, 1940)

Syntropis macrura Kraepelin, 1900

Vaejovis bilineatus Pocock, 1898
V. carolinianus (Beauvois, 1805)
V. coahuilae Williams, 1968
V. intrepidus Thorell, 1876
V. jonesi Stahnke, 1940
V. punctatus Pocock, 1898
V. puritanus Gertsch, 1958
V. spinigerus (Wood, 1863)
V. vorhiesi Stahnke, 1940
V. waueri Gertsch & Soleglad, 1972

Random pattern of dorsal orientation:

Paruroctonus arenicola Haradon, 1984
P. boreus (Girard, 1854)
P. luteolus (Gertsch & Soleglad, 1966)
P. shulovi (Williams, 1970)
P. silvestrii (Borelli, 1909)
P. utahensis (Williams, 1968)
P. variabilis Hjelle, 1982

Smeringurus mesaensis (Stahnke, 1957)

Uroctonus mordax Thorell, 1876

Vaejovis confusus Stahnke, 1940

Cheers,
Luc


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: possible sticky?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 3:41 pm 
User

Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 8:55 am
Posts: 656
Location: Detroit, southeastern Michigan, U,S.A.
Zach,

The below list is not complete but should get you headin' in the right direction. Systematic placement of family and genera based upon Prendini & Wheeler 2005. According to V. Fet, Hormuridae, not Liochelidae, is the accurate name of the family BUT until the change is published, Liochelidae stands.

Dorsal orientation patterns in selected genera.

Anuroctonus Pocock, 1893 (Iuridae): Random
Hadrurus Thorell, 1876 (Iuridae): Random
Iurus Thorell, 1876 (Iuridae): Random

Alayotityus Armas, 1973 (Buthidae): Random
Ananteris Thorell, 1891 (Buthidae): Random
Androctonus Ehrenberg, 1828 (Buthidae): Random
Australobuthus Locket, 1990 (Buthidae): Random
Babycurus Karsch, 1886 (Buthidae): Pseudolongitudinal and Random
Buthacus Birula, 1908 (Buthidae): Random
Buthus Leach, 1815 (Buthidae): Random
Centruroides Marx, 1890 (Buthidae): Pseudolongitudinal and Random
Compsobuthus Vachon, 1949 (Buthidae): Random
Grosphus Simon, 1880 (Buthidae): Random
Hottentotta Birula, 1908 (Buthidae): Random
Isometrus Ehrenberg, 1828 (Buthidae): Pseudolongitudinal and Random
Leiurus Ehrenberg, 1828 (Buthidae): Random
Lychas C. L. Koch, 1845 (Buthidae): Pseudolongitudinal and Random
Mesobuthus Vachon, 1950 (Buthidae): Random
Microtityus Kjellesvig-Waering, 1966 (Buthidae): Pseudolongitudinal and Random
Odontobuthus Vachon, 1950 (Buthidae: Random
Odonturus Karsch, 1879 (Buthidae): Random
Orthochirus Karsch, 1891 (Buthidae): Random
Parabuthus Pocock, 1890 (Buthidae): Random
Rhopalurus Thorell, 1876 (Buthidae): Pseudolongitudinal and Random
Tityopsis Armas, 1974 (Buthidae): Random
Tityus C. L. Koch, 1836 (Buthidae): Pseudolongitudinal and Random
Uroplectes Peters, 1861 (Buthidae): Random
Zabius Thorell, 1893 (Buthidae): Random

Euscorpiops Vachon, 1980 (Euscorpiidae): Random
Euscorpius Thorell, 1876 (Euscorpiidae): Random
Megacormus Karsch, 1881 (Euscorpiidae): Random
Scorpiops Peters, 1861 (Euscorpiidae): Random

Broteochactas Pocock, 1893 (Chactidae): Random
Brotheas C. L. Koch, 1837 (Chactidae): Random

Bothriurus Peters, 1861 (Bothriuridae): Random
Brachistosternus Pocock, 1893 (Bothriuridae): Random
Cercophonius Peters, 1861 (Bothriuridae): Random
Urophonius Pocock, 1893 (Bothriuridae): Random

Chaerilus Simon, 1877 (Chaerilidae): Random

Cheloctonus Pocock, 1892 (Liochelidae (Hormuridae)): Random
Chiromachus Pocock, 1893 (Liochelidae (Hormuridae)): Random
Hadogenes Kraepelin, 1894 (Liochelidae (Hormuridae)): Random
Iomachus Pocock, 1893 (Liochelidae (Hormuridae)): Random
Liocheles Sundevall, 1833 (Liochelidae (Hormuridae)): Random
Opisthacanthus Peters, 1861 (Liochelidae (Hormuridae)): Random

Hemiscorpius Peters, 1861 (Hemiscorpiidae): Random

Heteroscorpion Birula, 1903 (Heteroscorpionidae): Random

Cazierus Francke, 1978 (Diplocentridae): Random
Didymocentrus Kraepelin, 1905 (Diplocentridae): Random
Diplocentrus Peters, 1861 (Diplocentridae): Random and Transverse
Heteronebo Pocock, 1899 (Diplocentridae): Random

Heterometrus Ehrenberg, 1828 (Scorpionidae): Random
Opistophthalmus C. L. Koch, 1837 (Scorpionidae): Random
Pandinus Thorell, 1876 (Scorpionidae): Random
Scorpio Linnaeus, 1758 (Scorpionidae): Random

Urodacus Peters, 1861 (Urodacidae): Random

Cheers,
Luc


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: possible sticky?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 3:42 pm 
User

Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 8:55 am
Posts: 656
Location: Detroit, southeastern Michigan, U,S.A.
Bill S wrote:
Looks like this thread is becoming the one that Zach was hoping for. Maybe a moderator will change the name of the thread to make it more searchable?

Luc - thanks for posting the list. Will you post similar for other scorpion groups? (And Jillian asked me to ask you when you'll publish on this.)

Bill,

Tell Jillian that if all things go well, by year's end (hopefully).

Take care,
Luc


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: possible sticky?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:54 am 
User

Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 8:55 am
Posts: 656
Location: Detroit, southeastern Michigan, U,S.A.
Additionally,

Diplocentridae

Nebo Simon, 1878: Random
Tarsoporosus Francke, 1978: Random

Iuridae

Caraboctonus Pocock, 1893: Random
Hadruroides Pocock, 1893: Random

More will be posted in the future.

Cheers,
Luc


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: offspring dorsal orientation thread
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:20 am 
User
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:44 am
Posts: 1136
Location: Vail, Arizona
Luc - I don't remember if we sent you photos of Superstitiona donensis or not. If not, let me know and we'll send them.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: offspring dorsal orientation thread
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:25 am 
User

Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 8:55 am
Posts: 656
Location: Detroit, southeastern Michigan, U,S.A.
Bill S wrote:
Luc - I don't remember if we sent you photos of Superstitiona donensis or not. If not, let me know and we'll send them.

Hi Bill,

I have them. Thanks again.

And we can add:

Superstitionia Stahnke, 1940 (Superstitioniidae): Random

Cheers,
Luc


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: offspring dorsal orientation thread
PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:42 am 
User
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 4:16 am
Posts: 42
Location: Amarillo, Texas
Hi Zach,

I still remember to this day seeing Warren's poster presentationat the AAS 96 Conference at the University of Arizona campus. That was a great time, Kari might jump in for he gave a presentation in front of the audience with his Centruroides topic. Still have the AAS group photo framed and Warren and Kari with their longer hair and my mullet LOL.

Zach Valois wrote:
For quite some time now I have wanted to see a sticky that people post reports and photos of offspring orientation in scorpions. Is this a possibility?


I have two old photos to contribute. Visual request in this sticky thread...



Image

Image

Regards,

Sinc. Chad



_________________
www.desert-scorpions.com
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: offspring dorsal orientation thread
PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:41 am 
User

Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 8:55 am
Posts: 656
Location: Detroit, southeastern Michigan, U,S.A.
Heya Chad,

Yeah, it was Warren's presentation that got me interested in DOP's and their adaptive values. Nice photos of the vaejovids. I've now had 5 V. puritanus and 16 V. confusus successfully give birth under my care. Vaejovis confusus is one of my favorite US scorpion species and I'll probably breed a few more this summer or autumn.

Cheers,
Luc


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: offspring dorsal orientation thread
PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:52 pm 
User
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:44 am
Posts: 1136
Location: Vail, Arizona
Chad Lee wrote:
I still remember to this day seeing Warren's poster presentationat the AAS 96 Conference at the University of Arizona campus. ....


You were here for that one? Cool!!! Did you happen to join Warren, Vince & Barbara Roth, David Sissom and the bunch of others when we took over the patio of a Mexican restaurant one of those evenings? Vince recounted his rediscovery of the Ditmars' horned lizard over dinner, and I think it was right after the conference that we brought Warren, Darrell Ubick and a couple others out to our place, where Darrell discovered a new species of cave spider.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: offspring dorsal orientation thread
PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 1:53 am 
User
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 10:54 pm
Posts: 1287
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
This is great guys, just what I have been wanting to see for years. I have a strong interest in scorpion embryology (Roger Farley=hero), so this is obviously of concern to me. Can't thank you guys enough. This thread will be intriguing to anyone interested in scorpion biology, invertebrate embryology, evolution, and animals in general. I look forward to seeing it grow.



_________________
Zachary J. Valois
Salt Lake City, Utah
Z_Valois@yahoo.com
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: offspring dorsal orientation thread
PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 3:49 am 
User
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 4:16 am
Posts: 42
Location: Amarillo, Texas
HI Bill,

Yes, I remember the patio restuarant. Kari and I were sitting on one end as well as Dr. Griswold.

That was a great conference for it initiated the Tree of Life project. Meeting so many folks especially the late Vince Roth. Truely an honor and seeing how his manual has evolved to what it is today.

I don't recall the latter but one of the night field trips we attended, I was talking with Warren and then I experienced my first Hadrurus 'bag' LOL.

Add in another memory, Joe Bigelow's captive Paruroctonus/Smeringurus specimens he brought to the conference. I wonder to this day whatever happened with the AZ manuscript for publication?

Heck, we might of met then Bill. Do you have the group photo so as to find ya in placement?

Sinc. Chad

Bill S wrote:
You were here for that one? Cool!!! Did you happen to join Warren, Vince & Barbara Roth, David Sissom and the bunch of others when we took over the patio of a Mexican restaurant one of those evenings? Vince recounted his rediscovery of the Ditmars' horned lizard over dinner, and I think it was right after the conference that we brought Warren, Darrell Ubick and a couple others out to our place, where Darrell discovered a new species of cave spider.



_________________
www.desert-scorpions.com
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: offspring dorsal orientation thread
PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:23 am 
User

Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 8:55 am
Posts: 656
Location: Detroit, southeastern Michigan, U,S.A.
Zach Valois wrote:
This is great guys, just what I have been wanting to see for years. I have a strong interest in scorpion embryology (Roger Farley=hero), so this is obviously of concern to me. Can't thank you guys enough. This thread will be intriguing to anyone interested in scorpion biology, invertebrate embryology, evolution, and animals in general. I look forward to seeing it grow.


Heya Zach,

Great choice of hero as Roger is a great, very down-to-earth kinda guy, and his work is nothing short of extraordinary!

BTW, while three DOP's are currently recognized, those of bark scorpions differ and in some bark scorpion species, the young will even change orientation. Additionally, in some bark scorpions the females give birth while suspended upside down from various structures, and the young are expelled from the genital opening, shed their birth membranes, and descend to the dorsa of the maternal females - anyway, quite fascinating watching how they relate to each other during orientation.

Cheers,
Luc

Cheers,
Luc


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: offspring dorsal orientation thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 4:58 am 
User
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 10:54 pm
Posts: 1287
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Buthidae:

Hottentotta Birula, 1908: H. cf. jalalabadensis RANDOM

Image



_________________
Zachary J. Valois
Salt Lake City, Utah
Z_Valois@yahoo.com
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: offspring dorsal orientation thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 6:48 am 
User

Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 8:55 am
Posts: 656
Location: Detroit, southeastern Michigan, U,S.A.
Hi Zach,

Except for a modified pattern of longitudinal orientation utilized by first and pre-dispersal second-instar bark scorpions, the young of all other buthid scorpions probably orient randomly. I have DOP data on nine Hottentotta species and all of the young orient randomly.

And, while random orientation is the basal pattern of orientation of young during the dorsal transportation stage in chactids, diplocentrids, and scorpionids, transverse orientation occurs in members of all three families and is not exclusive to Diplocentrus whitei.

I can also now add the following due to recent births:

Opisthacanthus (Monodopisthacanthus) maculatus = random (unusual for this genus of bark scorpions)

Parabuthus becki = random

And the following based on a recently published paper by Outeda-Jorge et al. (2009):

Opisthacanthus (Opisthacanthus) cayaporum = modified longitudinal
Bothriurus rochensis = random
Brotheas sp. = transverse
Ananteris balzanii = random
Rhopalurus rochai = random

Cheers,
Luc


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: offspring dorsal orientation thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 12:27 pm 
User

Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 8:55 am
Posts: 656
Location: Detroit, southeastern Michigan, U,S.A.
Hi Zach,

Also, the transverse pattern of larval orientation is not strictly limited to the first-instar young of Diplocentrus whitei. It also occurs in at least one other Diplocentrus species, several Opistophthalmus species, and one Brotheas species.

Cheers,
Luc


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: offspring dorsal orientation thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 5:59 pm 
ATS Public Relations Officer
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:28 am
Posts: 2074
Location: Northern Alberta, Canada
Tityus stigmurus

Image

Image

Image

Image


Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 Page 1 of 1 [ 18 posts ] 

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to: